Comments on: The Great Divide http://kami.falseblue.com/2006/04/01/the-great-divide/ Religion, Rethought, Redefined, Restored Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:19:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4 by: Ryan http://kami.falseblue.com/2006/04/01/the-great-divide/#comment-26 Mon, 03 Apr 2006 05:15:44 +0000 http://kami.falseblue.com/2006/04/01/the-great-divide/#comment-26 If you say something exists, but I can't prove it, that it's purely a matter of faith, then there is no difference in life between believing in that entity and not believing in it at all. Only <i>after</i> I have died, if you were right, would I not only find out but experience retribution against my sins in life. If it's one thing I believe, it's that a realization of Descartes' prisoner's dilemma (as applied to believe in God) does <i>not</i> force one into believing in God. I can acknowledge the gravity of my doom (given that there is a God and I do not believe in him) all I want; but if I truly, truly, <i>truly</i> do not believe, then I'm just as screwed then as I would be if I had complete ignorance of Descartes' argument. And indeed, even if I say to you, "Oh! I do believe! I do believe!", and I truly do believe that there is a God, but I only believed because you instilled fear into me with the argument, "Well, if you die w/o believing in Him, you're screwed," then I <i>still</i> maintain that I'm a-goin' to Hell because my faith is still motivated by selfish aims, not by a true selfless love for and belief in God. So we come back to the important question: how do you get a scientist (by which we mean one with the mindset of, and not specifically one whose profession is scientific) to believe in something which is just as possibly fake and just as possibly real as Santa Claus? "Well, Santa Claus is made up to make children have a happier Christmas," you might say. "Well, God is made up to make humans have a happier life on Earth," I might retort. You can't make me believe, so how do you awaken me? Or am I perpetually doomed to damnation? Am I lost with no hope for salvation? In which case, why do I exist? Why does a rational mind exist if it is to be condemned from the beginning? If you say something exists, but I can’t prove it, that it’s purely a matter of faith, then there is no difference in life between believing in that entity and not believing in it at all. Only after I have died, if you were right, would I not only find out but experience retribution against my sins in life.

If it’s one thing I believe, it’s that a realization of Descartes’ prisoner’s dilemma (as applied to believe in God) does not force one into believing in God. I can acknowledge the gravity of my doom (given that there is a God and I do not believe in him) all I want; but if I truly, truly, truly do not believe, then I’m just as screwed then as I would be if I had complete ignorance of Descartes’ argument.

And indeed, even if I say to you, “Oh! I do believe! I do believe!”, and I truly do believe that there is a God, but I only believed because you instilled fear into me with the argument, “Well, if you die w/o believing in Him, you’re screwed,” then I still maintain that I’m a-goin’ to Hell because my faith is still motivated by selfish aims, not by a true selfless love for and belief in God.

So we come back to the important question: how do you get a scientist (by which we mean one with the mindset of, and not specifically one whose profession is scientific) to believe in something which is just as possibly fake and just as possibly real as Santa Claus? “Well, Santa Claus is made up to make children have a happier Christmas,” you might say.

“Well, God is made up to make humans have a happier life on Earth,” I might retort.

You can’t make me believe, so how do you awaken me? Or am I perpetually doomed to damnation? Am I lost with no hope for salvation? In which case, why do I exist? Why does a rational mind exist if it is to be condemned from the beginning?

]]> by: Morris Cromer http://kami.falseblue.com/2006/04/01/the-great-divide/#comment-25 Sat, 01 Apr 2006 17:08:59 +0000 http://kami.falseblue.com/2006/04/01/the-great-divide/#comment-25 well thought. well thought.

]]> by: drdillo http://kami.falseblue.com/2006/04/01/the-great-divide/#comment-24 Sat, 01 Apr 2006 13:39:29 +0000 http://kami.falseblue.com/2006/04/01/the-great-divide/#comment-24 Probably one of your best articles. Probably one of your best articles.

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